Varies by desk. Stressful when you lose.
higher than 40 so you might as well forget about it
Best Response
From what a friend (VP, FX Options at BB) tells me, it's not the hours that are tough. He says the day goes by really fast and doesn't even feel it if he works right through lunch. The tough part is what happens when you leave your desk (if you have overnight positions, which you would since FX markets are 24/7). Sure, someone else takes over the desk in London or Tokyo or whatever, but he told me that after leaving his desk, he's checking his positions on his blackberry every hour (even in the night). That's what's tough. Now I think FX is probably the toughest in this regard, but I'm sure if you're on a very low volume/illiquid desk, you don't have to deal with these issues, but there are other things that can stress you out (i.e. complex structured products etc.).
-MBP
Credit trading here, do 7-7.Equities guys 630-5ish. Eq Dervs stay longer, kinda like the bitches to the traders.Commodities i noticed varies by day, but come in the latest - 9am and no big deal.Interest rate swaps around 8-8, probably stay the latest. Cant figure out why, but its really just 2 guys and they seem to take big breaks during the day.
Re the guy checking his FX positions on his bb at every hour of the night - very possible, but id assume this is a junior guy? The older guys i see are a bit more relaxed with FX. And i dont mean the sales guys who are carefree, but the FX guys just always have some sort of hedges on to make sure they dont flip their sh*t.
And yes, day passes super quickly typically. Everything before lunch is a blur really.
UserNamelias:
Ambition:
No offense man, but why did u start another thread. Couldn't you just ask this on the same one? Just wonderingNo, people were being assholes on that thread, but it seems to have trickled into here too.
I see, well trading is lower than IBD prolly 60ish average, I think the(base) formula is.
(hours worked)+(risk taken) = salary(with bonus)IBD = high hours + with ok risk = good salaryS&T= lower (than IBD) hours + higher (than IBD) risk= good salary
Idk for sure but that is my opinion
I want a lady on the street, but a freak in the bed,Go Bucks!!
i thought you wanted to teach high school
englandco:
i thought you wanted to teach high school
You thought wrong.
45-60 you actually work. The rest time is spent bearing risk and trying to find an edge.
i.e. when you wake up at 4am to look at week ahead weather forecasts if your in energy. When you read stuff for 3 hours on a sunday to figure out the macro picture. So on and so on.Hours worked is not a concern in trading, unless your on a complete fully flow desk with amazing sales folks just bringing tons of sh*t in the door. The risk and the ability that you can't stand up or even take a piss at times is the bad part.
You're gonna be the first person on the desk and the last person to leave. Totally depends on what desk you're on though
a large part if it is determined by the MD's on the desk and how much they value face time...
from my experience in rates id say everyone starts about 6:30-7 and leaves as follows:
gov/agencies - 5:15-6 pm on averageswaps - 6:30-7 pm, sometimes earlierswaptions 8-9 pm (have seen less hours at different shops here)exotics 6-6:30 pm
ultimately as a jr guy its your job to be there first and be the guy to ensure everything else is ok which means you're the last to leave.
analyst26:
from my experience in rates id say everyone starts about 6:30-7 and leaves as follows:gov/agencies - 5:15-6 pm on averageswaps - 6:30-7 pm, sometimes earlierswaptions 8-9 pm (have seen less hours at different shops here)exotics 6-6:30 pm
ultimately as a jr guy its your job to be there first and be the guy to ensure everything else is ok which means you're the last to leave.
from what i have heard from a buddy on that desk, exotics guys usually work the longest hours. something more like 6:30-9:00 or so. the late nights coming from pricing new structures or re-calibrating volatility surface parameters. i.e. tons of fun.
Commodities trading: Get in at 8:30 - 9:00 and leave at around 8:00 - 8:30. This was in Asia but it may be different here. The rates guys always used to work the hardest, especially the guys in rates structuring.
carbon traders used to have the best hours.
For foreign exchange, you usually show up between 6:30-7 am and go home between 5-7 pm.
For london:
cash equity sales/salestrading: 6:00-6:30 - 5ishcash equity trading: 6:45ish - 5ishFlow equity derivs trading: 6:30 - 6-7ishExotics equity derivs: 7:30ish - 8ish
Structured credit trading: 7 - 8 for the correlation traders, 9 - 9:30ish for the 'deal' guys
derivstrading:
For london:cash equity sales/salestrading: 6:00-6:30 - 5ishcash equity trading: 6:45ish - 5ishFlow equity derivs trading: 6:30 - 6-7ishExotics equity derivs: 7:30ish - 8ish
Structured credit trading: 7 - 8 for the correlation traders, 9 - 9:30ish for the 'deal' guys
Structured credit trading is normally much later at my bank, can be closer to midnight in some instances.
Related Topic
Trading Hours and Commuting (Originally Posted: 03/01/2010)
For a S&T SA, how early do you need to be in the office by? I'm a one hour train ride away from NYC and I was thinking I'd probably be able to commute since I'm guessing I'd have to be in by 8 am at the earliest and out by 5'ish at the latest (assuming normal 40 hour week). I figure there's little point in living in NYC and shelling out so much cash to live there since it's not IB where you'd be working all day.
Do most S&T people tend to commute?
Thanks!
Do you know what product/desk you'd be on or is it rotational? Equities or Fixed Income?
Jack: They’re all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard.-30 Rock
Plan on working until at least 6:00pm, or as late as 7:00 pm depending on your duties. Some people drive in from and back to Connecticut, or in from LI. LI has probably the best commuter trains that will get you to the downtown subway or taxis.
Morelikeballstreet:
Yeah, you may want to consider renting a place closer to work. Depending on where you are working, take a look at apartments in Brooklyn. It's a much shorter commute and you can find places (if you also find roommates) for less than $1000/month.
If you earn what most people do at banks and live in Brooklyn, you're wasting a lot of money in taxes. Hoboken is just as close, has similar rents, and has no city tax.
Most senior people commute. Most junior people live close-by. You'll work long hours (first one in, last one out), you'll be out for drinks. You worked hard to get your SA spot - don't ruin it by being cheap on a place to stay. Don't assume a 40 hour work week - expect 60 intense hours.
Check out NYU dorms. Columbia dorms work as well - tons of SAs living there. The smart SAs split a cab to work, much faster (no traffic in the AM) and is pretty affordable when you split it 3-4 ways.
you can definitely commute if you want to, but that'll be your summer because you should plan on being to your desk by 6:00 for right now. Maybe you start and no one gets there until 7, great, but plan on 6.
Commute - you're tired all day and your internship is your life for the summer.
I lived a 5 minute door to door commute and it was awesome
It's rotational. You guys are probably right, I'll just find a place in the city.
Thanks for the advice!
I know someone who commutted during the rotational program. He said it was a mistake (and I'd believe it), you're already working enough, it would eat up a few hours of your free time... which is proportionally a lot.
Jack: They’re all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard.-30 Rock
Related Topic
Senior level Sales & Trading pay/hours/lifestyle (bulge bracket) (Originally Posted: 09/02/2013)
I have recently become interested in sales and trading jobs, particularly working in equity markets. My question is, if I were to gain a job and remain in Sales and Trading at a bulge bracket investment bank, what would life be like at a senior position such as Managing Director in terms of pay and hours/lifestyle. I have found a lot of information of life as a sales and trading analyst but less about senior levels in Sales and Trading.
Any info would be appreciated thanks.
I know that at a BB (at least one for sure) an MD gets base 600k, then a bonus that could be well over 100% of salary depending on how, firm/division/group/individual performed.
as far as lifestyle, I am not sure about S&T per say, but an MD in trading on the buy side of said BB, is in at 7ish and out around 430. Normal for MD to respond to emails after hours and on weekends.
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